Home > Good calls, Good no-calls, LA Lakers, Missed travels, New Orleans Hornets > Hornets-Lakers (Game 2): A big carry by Kobe undetected? Plus, 2 fouls on Kobe legit despite the whining

Hornets-Lakers (Game 2): A big carry by Kobe undetected? Plus, 2 fouls on Kobe legit despite the whining

In Wednesday night’s Hornets-Lakers game, there weren’t any bad calls or no-calls down the stretch that would have changed the outcome of the game.

However, we were struck by one no-call of traveling against Kobe Bryant that looked like a violation to us, and 3 other rulings against him that were correct by ref Tony Brothers (#25).

We hate to say it, but two of the clips in the video below reveal how much of a complainer Kobe is when it’s obvious he is wrong, and when he knows he’s wrong. It’s nothing new, but always good to see video proof in slow motion.

On Thursday, we’ll be posting some video of calls/no-calls from the Grizzlies-Spurs game that was played Wednesday night. So stay tuned.

  • Bobbyj01

    wow are u serious? chris paul flops like a little bitch and nothing about his antics?

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      Stay tuned. We’ve got one of those and will be posting soon. There are just too many bad calls and flops to go through, and we’re backlogged! Hopefully through our sites (this one and TopFlops.com) the players will find out we’re watching and will stop the flops!

  • Muslim2mamba

    im on topflops.com yet i cant find one of cp3’s flops y is that

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      Stay tuned. We’ve got one of those and will be posting soon. There are just too many bad calls and flops to go through, and we’re backlogged! Hopefully through our sites (this one and TopFlops.com) the players will find out we’re watching and will stop the flops!
      Edit Reply

  • GrImmz4764

    How are you going to argue that a call where Kobe makes incidental contact with Pauls hand after his shot is released is a good call, and then when Kobe’s hand is slapped on the next sequence you show, you argue that hand is part of the ball? Why is contact with the hand not ok for Kobe but ok for his defenders? Also Paul carries the ball nearly every time he comes off a screen, please watch for that.

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      If you watch the video again, we have a still where it say it’s not legal in the act of shooting (that’s what our ref on staff has told us), but is okay otherwise. And on Ariza’s slap, he didn’t even touch Kobe’s hand after slapping the ball. Replay the video and you’ll see. We just bring up the “hand is part of the ball” thing to show how legal it was because Ariza didn’t even get his hand until the ball was out of it.

      Alot of guards carry the ball, but we can only feature the most egregious. Kobe’s last night was a doozy, especially if you account for Reggie Miller not even saying anything about it, and instead falling in love with Kobe’s greatness on the bucket, and how it should have been an “And 1.”

      • Grimmz4764

        Thanks for taking the time to respond. By my interpretation of the rules, either both should be no calls or both should be fouls. Kobe didn’t make contact with CP3’s shot until it was already launched, so it did not affect his shot at all, and while there was no contact with Paul’s leg as was demonstrated, it appears to me that Paul was trying to create contact there, which made the contact appear more egregious.

        • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

          We hear you. The rules aren’t very clear about contact after a shot is released, but we asked our ref on staff and he said that it’s a foul as we’ve seen interpreted by other refs a high percentage of the time. I think it’s because the fact that you think your hand is going to get hit when you’re shooting, it affects your shot. If a defender is able to ‘scare’ a shooter that he’s going to hit his hand, and doesn’t, then he’s got a huge advantage. But perhaps it’s really hard for a defender to do that unless they actually have to hit the shooter’s hand.

          We plan on writing a separate piece to address this question because the rules aren’t very clear, and us having a ref to help us can really shed light on it.

          There’s also a loophole in the rulebook, by design, that gives refs discretion to decide if contact like CP3 made with his leg was meaningful or not. Otherwise, anytime contact is made between players, a foul could be called.

  • S56

    Wow somebody hates Kobe. He’s clearly hit on the wrist, not the hand..and the wrist is not legal. You even say Kobe is a complainer…you want to harp on refs making bad calls, how about being unbiased yourself. Just show the plays, the rules, and let the viewers decide…don’t bash players because you don’t like the way they conduct themselves on the court

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      My, someone is a little sensitive about showing the world the Kobester in slow-mo. You need to watch the video again. The ball is hit first, then his wrist. Never said he wasn’t hit on the wrist (watch it again). You also miss the point b/c we point out to the ref that Kobe said he was hit on the arm, not the wrist. That’s a big difference, and exaggeration on his part.

      The rules are on the video for people to decide. We don’t use any words that “bash” Kobe, and we let the viewers decide in almost all cases since we know there are alot of Kobe lovers out there who think he can do no wrong, and they tend to get a little sensitive (cough). Here are the exact words we put on the video:

      “Is what’s upcoming a carry that Kobe helps him get past his defender? The rules state that a player may not bring the ball to a pause while dribbling and then continue to dribble again.”

      “He will go from beyond the 3-point line to the free throw line. Is that even possible without traveling (when not on a fast break at full speed)?”

      “Hey Reggie (Miller), it could have easily been a travel, too. Even former players don’t talk much about the rules.”

      “In the same game, Kobe will complain to the refs for contact he made to Chris Paul’s shooting hand, but try to blame it on Paul’s leg making incidental contact with him long after the shot was released.” [Reggie Miller makes a statement about this after the play by saying the “foul was up top.” So even former players are questioning Kobe’s antics.]

      “The ref (Tony Brothers – #25) got the foul right, as well as giving him a “disrespect” technical foul.” [We’re just telling what Reggie Miller was saying, too]

      “Watch as Kobe gets the ball stripped from his hand and knocked off his leg, but complain he got hit on the arm. You be the judge…” [Everyone can see he’s complaining — I guess you think the using the word “complain” means “bash,” which it doesn’t.”

      “Is another technical for complaining and “disrespecting the game” in order here? [Just asking the viewers to let them decide, as you suggested].

      “This is where Kobe claims he got hit on the arm, but watch the replay…”

      “Contact is made on the ball. Incidental contact is made on the follow through, which is not illegal. In fact, contact on the hand while that hand is in contact with the ball is legal.”

      “The ball bounces off Kobe’s leg out of bounds.”

      “Good call by Tony Brothers.”

      Since there are no “bash” words in these sentences (like calling him a chump or whatever), it sounds like someone is overly sensitive about any kind of questions raised about Kobe’s actions on the court.

      And we’re not here to let users decide all by themselves all the time. They want a professional interpretation of the rules. That’s why we have a ref on staff. Our interpretation of the rules are not “biased,” as you claim. When we do make them, they are based on fact and the rules, not bias.

      Users can review the video and oppose them if they want, but we’re not here to just regurgitate rules and video 100% of the time like you’re looking for. If you want that, just DVR the games and read the rulebook while you watch the game.

  • Kar33m24

    This is a really good concept for a website but you have to show both sides of the story…all 3 clips were against the lakers and 0 were against the hornets…you lose a lot of credibility as a writer when you only show people what you want to show them rather than what both sides want to see.

    Im sure that there were a few calls that were complete BS on the lakers that you found, but chose not to put up…until I actually see a site that is actually covering both teams instead of the team that the creator cleary has a bias against, (see the images on top of topflops.com) then I just can’t take this website seriously

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      Believe me, we will be featuring all players and teams. We just launched last Saturday, but more importantly, there’s only so much time in a day to post everything for each game (because there are so many bad calls in each game), but over time it will be ‘fair and balanced.’ Trust me.

      I don’t know where you get this “clearly biased against” thing. At the top of TopFlops.com, Andrei Kirilenko and Wesley Matthews are on there flopping, too (non-Lakers). Since we were in a rush to get the site up, we had to go with images we got from one game last year where we had analyzed it in full. Over time we’ll be swapping out that header image with something else.

      • Grimmz4764

        Haha, I understand that you probably had a limited selection of images, but that header is quite funny at first glance as there is a Laker in every image.

  • DJ Qube

    Wow. What a fantastically lopsided account of the bad calls in last nights game. Pair that with the emphasis on Kobe’s complaining, which EVERY player does, you really are coming off as quite biased. It would have been very easy to add a comment on the no call for the defender sliding under Kobe on that very same possession, or Kobe’s demonstration of the CP3’s kickout shouldn’t have warranted a technical, but that would’ve taken time away from the focus on Kobe’s complaining I guess.
    In addition this this, to call out the refs for Kobe’s uncalled carry in a game with CP3 in it is ridiculous. Chris Paul is one of the most egregious offenders of this rule. If one expects the refs to call Kobe for his carries, then those same refs would have to call twice as many on Chris Paul.

    There are many passionate fans for every team out there, Lakers included of course. The one thing that all fans (outside of Miami) have in common is that we hate the refs. I like the idea of what you’re doing with the site, but if you want to avoid alienating fans of particular teams, you need to stop cherry picking calls that put only one team in a negative light.

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      We never stated on this site that we’re going to do a balanced account of every game (try to find it), so lighten up. And if you would read the other comments I have provided on this very page before going ballistic, you might have saved yourself getting worked up about it. We wrote under another user’s comment:

      “Believe me, we will be featuring all players and teams. We just launched last Saturday, but more importantly, there’s only so much time in a day to post everything for each game (because there are so many bad calls in each game), but over time it will be ‘fair and balanced.’ Trust me.”

      We don’t make any money doing this. We are volunteers. So if you’re going to jump on us doing this with only so many hours in the day with too many bad calls to go through from each night, then you can start a site that can do what you’re looking to get every night. You would quickly find that it’s impossible.

      • DJ Qube

        What makes this video appear biased is not just the fact the calls you highlight here are all against the Lakers in a game where they were outshot heavily from the freethrow line despite a 50-32 points in the paint advantage. Aside from the carrying call, you’re not really calling out the refs at all. You are in fact supporting the refs and calling out Kobe. I don’t understand how this supports what you’re trying to do here.

        Don’t take my criticism as an attack. I’m far from “ballistic”. Keep up what you’re doing. I understand you have limited time and resources. Maybe as the site matures and you have more content to reference, it will appear more neutral. I will try to be active on the forum and contribute some meaningful content.

        • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

          Thanks. We also point out at http://refcalls.com/about that occasionally we’re going to give credit to the refs, too, when they make difficult calls. Part of our mission is to educate fans when refs do a good job because it is a tough profession with all the pressure on them to get it right. We also think we would get more credibility if we’re fair and balanced with the refs, too.

  • hoops

    Is that a discontinued dribble? Yes, it is. But I’m trying to understand why you would isolate that play when there are many more clear-cut examples from other players. The last play is silly. Hand is part of the ball in these situations. The problem is Ariza follows through on the wrist, and that limits Kobe’s ability to recover the ball. Whether or not contact that occurs after the ball is loose(or free) should be considered a foul is the question.

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      I don’t know if there’s alot of sensitive Laker fans commenting on this post or not (seems to be since none of the other posts have had this kind of activity). The reason why we isolate on that Kobe travel play is not because we are focusing on Kobe (many Kobe fans here, we presume, feel like they need to defend him), but because we want to point out what the REFs are missing that are the most obvious that even a caveman could call it.

      People need to remember this is a site where we are trying to hold the REFs accountable, not the players. Players will do what the refs will allow them to do, so we don’t blame them.

      We are actually working on a post where we’re going to bring up the contact on the wrist thing when hitting the hand is okay. We never understood that “hand on ball” rule, and I think alot of refs don’t either because we’ve seen refs call fouls on defenders who come down on the hand with the ball underneath it. Very inconsistent. You bring up a good point that we’ve also thought about ourselves, so keep an eye out for a post on that.

  • Blacksteele2002

    Type your comment hereEveryone in the NBA cvarries the ball. look at chris paul comming off screens on the right then suddenly carries the ball to the left. A player is entitled to his own space and chris paul jumps right into him for a 3 point play.

    • Staff

      Since you’re new to the site (everyone is), I’ll give you a pass that you don’t get the point of this site. We know that “everyone” carries the ball. That’s the point of what we’re doing. To bring more attention to the fact that refs aren’t calling it. And we say all the time there isn’t enough time to bring attention to every missed travel because there are too many of them. Watch or read this: http://refcalls.com/missed-travels. Some people think this is a site where we bash any player we want and they get sensitive about it. That’s not the case. We’re exposing the refs and the league, and alot of people want something done about it. Hopefully this site will help that cause.

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      Since you’re new to the site (everyone is), I’ll give you a pass that you don’t get the point of this site. We know that “everyone” carries the ball. That’s our point of what we’re doing: to bring more attention to the fact that refs aren’t calling it. And we say all the time there isn’t enough time to bring attention to every missed travel because there are too many of them. Watch or read this: http://refcalls.com/missed-travels. Some people think this is a site where we bash any player we want and they get sensitive about it. That’s not the case. We’re exposing the refs and the league, and the player just so happens to be the example of what they’re missing. If we were players, we would probably do it, too, to get an advantage until they start calling it. A lot of people want something done about it. Hopefully this site will help that cause.

  • JayS

    What a biased view. The author is clearly a Kobe hater as there was no mention of Chris paul’s incessant flopping and okafur’s whiney ass. How are you going to select a few plays of Kobe but not show okafur crying like a little child after every foul call? This article is overtly biased and lacks credibility.

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      Like the comment above…

      “We are not going to put in a thoughtful response until you prove that you have read the countless reasons we have articulated why we can’t cover every call.”

      • Rami_safi12

        o wow another person who thinks ur biased but ur right u guys know SOOOO much basketball

        • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

          You have every opportunity to report all the calls you see missed in the forum (http://refcalls.com/forums) like we say all over this site, so before you start casting stones toward people, how ’bout you un-lazy yourself and get to work and report them in our forum if it bothers you. We knew started this site off knowing it would be impossible to capture every call because of time constraints (since we are volunteers not getting paid for it and have to do it in between all the other things we have to do in our lives). So how do you people respond? You say, “you are biased,” “you are all-knowing,” blah, blah, blah. That’s what’s wrong with our society — too many people who want to complain and have other people do all the work without lifting their own finger. Pathetic.

          • Rami_safi12

            no one asked you to make this site, so thats ur own problem, you chose to make the site you shouldve known not everyone will agree with what you say

  • Rami_safi12

    you pointed out that kobe whined about calls…at what point does that have to do with a ref call…and if u could find some lame and unexplainable excuse then why are you not condemning emeka okafor for the same actions…

    • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

      We are not going to put in a thoughtful response until you prove that you have read the countless reasons we have articulated why we can’t cover every call. And it sounds like you don’t know the game enough, or can read the post or even see it on the video (to “dumb it down” as much as possible) is that there’s a violation called “disrespect of the game” that the announcers have been talking about all season. Lazy reading doesn’t deserve a thoughtful response.

      • Rami_safi12

        lol u said i dont know the game well enough…funny u say that after u get 25+ angry comments telling you how dumb u are for putting this vid up, shows who doesnt know the game now doesnt it…lazy reading doesnt deserve a thoughtfu response, well i say people with half the mind of a squirrel dont deserve a website in which they think everything they post is correct…u know mayb the refs should get more credibility then u guys, they showed they are more unbiased then u guys.. lol do u think anyone who posted a comment about this video thinks u guys deserve any credit at all lol…ive been on multiple nba team forums and notcied how much they talk about the dumb vids u guys post up so yea ur right i dont know basketball, but i do know more than u

        • Rami_safi12

          i understand u cant cover every call but apparently all the calls ur covering are on kobe…and u talked about how kobe hits chis pauls hand when he fouled him on his jump shot welll look at last nights game when steve blake hit a 3 over paul…well paul hit steve blakes wrist after the shot y didnt u say it was a bad cll by the refs…o yea i know why because u guys are lazy with ur videos

          • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

            You have every opportunity to report all the calls you see missed in the forum (http://refcalls.com/forums) like we say all over this site, so before you start casting stones toward people, how ’bout you un-lazy yourself and get to work and report them in our forum if it bothers you.

      • Kar33m24

        I don’t get why you are even bothering to put “correct calls” by the refs. 99% of the time they make the right call, so why are you even wasting your time showing it. 2/3 if this video is about the refs making the right call, and that Kobe is a complainer. I get the whole “disrespecting the game” excuse as the reason you put it, but do you REALLY think the refs are gonna give any player, regardless if it’s Kobe or Jared Jeffries, a technical for something stupid like that. You are wasting our time by posting videos of correct calls. I came to this site to see controversial calls that the refs missed not players complaining about calls. Players complain about ALMOST EVERY CALL. I think you should rather dedicate a lot of time and money to a site where it shows players complaining rather than referee miscues. That is all.

        • RefCalls-TopFlops staff

          We post correct calls for violations that many people on the other side think we’re wrong, or don’t know the rules when they think they do and explain why. We have no interest in posting easy correct calls. That would be a waste of time. Just the ones that are controversial enough to clear up misconceptions.

          If you count up all the violations we’ve analyzed on the rest of the site, it would’t be 2/3 correct calls. But for some reason some people are really fixated on this video and not as much on the others. We don’t know if we’re striking a nerve with Laker fans who are kind of insecure about all the flack they get from fans who hate them (we could care less which team wins games), even though they shouldn’t be because they are the two-time reigning champs.

          99% of the calls we post on the entire site don’t involve complaining. Makes us think there’s some Kobe protecters out there who are reaaallly sensitive. Something tells us if we posted a video of a second stringer during garbage time who know one cares about complaining, there wouldn’t be people coming out to defend him. That’s a reason why we picked Kobe to focus on — he’s a highly visible player who people like to watch, and he just happened to be the person we used as the “vessel” to show that refs don’t always call the “disrespect the game” technical by the letter of the law, especially when it’s a big-time player who already has a technical.

          Actually, we think the “disrespect the game” technical is pretty stupid ourselves. But it is the rule, and until they wipe it off the books, they should enforce it like all the other refs in the league have had to do. They did a good job of doing it earlier in the game, but not on the second occasion. And we never said he should receive the technical — we ask the question on the video, “Should this be one?” especially since we’ve seen much less get T’d up for other players.

          • Rami_safi12

            so you guys do realize that everyone is against you on thsi vid… and u blame it on everyone being laker fans…yea that or u showed the stupidest calls, there were so many calls in that game that u couldve gone with yet you picked the dumbest calls ive ever sen… u talked about how fisher did foul chirs paul when he brought his leg up…if u watch the video in an un biased way you could tell the reason fisher brought his leg up was cuz he was moved by the contact chris paul initiated, so if anything that would be a no call or a offensive foul… and you just even said that you used the “disrespect of the game” tech vid on kobe to show that even ppl like him get techs, first off why would u show a vid of that, ur trying to get ref calls in other words violations of the game, all it looked like was you tried to humiliate kobe..and why would you not show a vid dwight getting the tech, he is a superstar, he is well known, and he does get techs… ive read the “about refcalls.com” section over ten times and no where on tere does it say u will point out why the player got a technical, and if u dont agree with the whole “disrespect the game” tech then why even bother putting it up, no one is frcing u to tell us why they got a technical just foucs on the basics

            and im not a lakers fan im a bulls fan, i thought i would voice my concerns of this site here since i started here…but since im on the topic of bulls, that wasnt a travel by derrick rose, the first step you counted shouldnt have been called a step since the ball was still in the process of being picked up.

            Response to the bottom comment: you said to stop being lazy before i cast stones, lets review this whole argument were having, i voiced why i thought the video was wrong and then you came back with stuff like

            “And it sounds like you don’t know the game enough, or can read the post or even see it on the video (to “dumb it down” as much as possible)”

            or

            “Lazy reading doesn’t deserve a thoughtful response.”

            looks like youve been casting the stones here, if u didnt want half of the ppl who attend this site to talk to you then u could easily take away the comment box, i didnt expect a jackass response from you when i first commented, and if ur frustrated then you could take that frustration out on someone else

  • Kar33m24

    Ok, so you knew that this storm was coming. Interesting. Im just saying that as a viewer who actually knows the rules well and can admit that Kobe was complaining for no good reason, but what player doesn’t. Omeka Okafor complained about every foul he got. My whole problem with videos like this are not that it just all goes against my favorite team, that’s beyond the point, but I wanted to see calls from the game that were truly horrid. And I understand that you post clips of good no-calls from the refs also, but my personal preference to come to this site was to see MISSED calls from the refs. I honestly would’ve reacted the same way if it were clips of Joe smith complaining because I just don’t want to watch a 2 minute video of a player complaining on a site called refcalls.com.

    Nonetheless, I understand that there are people who come to this site that are not as familiar with the game and the rules that go with it so explaining why some calls are good no calls are fine, but to me I just don’t want to watch a video of why a player “should’ve” gotten a techical for something that happens literally 10 times every quarter.

  • Jimmy Panglia

    Despicable. Isn’t this site supposed to be an outlet for exposing bad calls. Yet this video and commentary sadly choose to focus on Kobe Bryant’s reactions calling him a complainer. The players reaction does not fall under the category of a ” ref call” yet that is what is focused on even More so than the missed calls while totally ignoring the bad calls made in favor of the Hornets. This was more if a Kobe/Laker bashing piece than one on missed calls.

    • RB

      You really need to get off your man-crush of Kobe like alot of people whining on this site and get over it. They have made very clear that they are picking on the refs, not the players, but oh, when your Messiah is the one being featured, you get your undies all bunched up.

      And, uh, yeah, complaining falls under the category of a call the refs can make. Since you’ve apparently been living under a rock the past year, the “disrespect of the game” rule was just put in place this season, and they even refer to it on their video. You’re so mesmerized by Kobe and the Lakers when they’re on any video, you can’t even read what they overlay on the video. For being a fan of the World Champs, guys like you are really insecure about it. That’s not how champs (or their fans) should react unless they have no backbone to support it. Just shows how their fans were not championship worthy after all.